[dmarc-discuss] MLM and Header-From rewritting - the SMTPopen-relay analogy

Al Iverson aiverson at spamresource.com
Sat Jun 7 16:26:01 PDT 2014

On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Dave Crocker via dmarc-discuss
<dmarc-discuss at dmarc.org> wrote:
> On 6/7/2014 7:31 PM, Franck Martin wrote:
>> But the claim is that these workarounds will mainly happen after you do DMARC p=reject. This data is coming in a not too distant future now.
> Keeping in mind that the mailing list scenario has always been
> legitimate use,

SMTP relay was a legitimate use case (or at least was very loudly
claimed to be by those angry about relay blocking).

> the concern is that we may be left with a long-term
> barrier to that use, with no attendant long-term benefit.

I think there's a good chance that the barrier melts away in the long
term. Specifically, the mailing list usage barrier. Mailman, Yahoo
Groups, Google Groups, and various commercial providers have already
implemented changes to that end. I feel like a lot of the barrier has
melted away already.

> The fact that there is short-term benefit is not the issue; it is that
> the benefit might not sustain.

If I can keep my domain out of the from address of bad mail forever,
that's a long term benefit to me. How does that not sustain?

The issue of lookalike domains was mentioned. This is an extant
badness vector. It gets addressed through multiple means, as it has
previously. It pops up, it gets a bad reputation, it gets blocked.
Domain rep, IP rep, content rep, can and will all still apply.

I think there's a legitimate exercise here to explore and I think we
would all benefit from a list or detail of concerns that people have,
so we can begin to consider whether or not we would agree that they're

To that end, I think anybody who's going to say "there's no long term
benefit" really should only say that when including a more detailed
statement of "why" that would be, because honestly, obviously, DMARC
proponents don't necessarily start from that point of view and I'm
sure I'm not the only one who would need more information to better
understand the concerns.

Al Iverson

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